Deft punk: Barnaby Harrod’s ten live lessons

Having given up his native England in the 1980s, Barnaby Harrod enjoyed a successful decade in a punk band, before fate – and love – saw him pursuing a backstage role. Now celebrating 25 years of Mercury Wheels, he (with the guidance of wife, Elie) has become one of Spain’s top promoters. Gordon Masson discovers ten of the key lessons learned by Barnaby during his fascinating career.

Born in Cambridge, Barnaby Harrod spent his first four years in the northern English city of Newcastle before the family returned south to London, where he stayed until the age of nine. “We then moved to Oxford, but we moved back to London when I was 13, so I spent all my teenage years around Ladbroke Grove and Portobello Road,” he tells IQ.

And it was there where his love for music blossomed. “I was born in 1965, so I was 11 in 1976 when punk broke,” he says. “My uncle took me to see my first gig when I was 12: the Boomtown Rats, with Bob Geldof, and it was amazing. Just going to that one gig got me into music forever, and I started listening to the Ramones and the Sex Pistols and the Clash, as well as going to gigs in London, in 1977, 78, 79, as a teenager.”

While he wasn’t necessarily academic at school, Barnaby was a promising footballer, but punk rock soon took over his life.

“I got into the first 11 football team in my penultimate year, but in my final year, they put me back into the second 11 because by that time I was too much into music, having a drink down the pub, and enjoying myself.”

Always ahead of his time, Barnaby took a gap year when he left school. “I pulled on a backpack and went to South America – I was 18 – and I went to Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile. You couldn’t go to Argentina at that time if you were English because it was just after the Falklands War.” However, armed with the rudimentary Spanish he had learned at school, that adventurous trip planted a hispanophile seed, and on his return to the UK, he enrolled at University College London to study Modern Iberian Latin American Studies.

“I always felt like a tourist in France and Italy and Greece. But as soon as I got into Spain, I felt instantly at home”

Studies can map your path in life
“When we lived in Oxford, my mother always had lodgers. They were mostly students, but one of our lodgers – Philip Lloyd-Bostock – was a Spanish don, and he was the one who got me interested in Spanish. He was a wonderful man, and he inspired me to learn Spanish and read Spanish literature, which completely changed my life.”

In his second year at university, he completed a four-month exchange course in Córdoba. “I loved it, and I connected straightaway with the Spanish people. When I went on Interrail with my friends, I always felt like a tourist in France and Italy and Greece. But as soon as I got into Spain, I felt instantly at home. That’s been the way I felt about Spain from the very beginning.”

Disillusioned by university, Barnaby poured himself into music, joining a pub band in London called The Pleasure Splinters. “We never did anything, but I played bass and sang a bit of backing vocals. Then I joined another band, the Disco Dagos, where I played a bit of guitar, but they didn’t really come to anything either.”

But the pull of Spain was too much to ignore and because his birthday coincided with the running of the bulls in Pamplona, he decided that’s what he should do, having read about the event in Ernest Hemingway’s Fiesta.

Taking a risk can pay off immeasurably
Displaying the steely nerve that every promoter requires, he took £100 that his father had gifted him for his birthday and took a risk. “I went to the Golden Horseshoe Casino on Shaftesbury Avenue (London), played roulette, and walked out with £1,000. And the next morning, I went to a travel agent and bought a flight to Barcelona because that was the nearest place to Pamplona.”

Having met a couple of friendly Pamplona locals, he found himself staying in a flat overlooking part of the bull run. And then came the day when he joined the spectacle. “It was absolutely terrifying,” he states. “At the bottleneck that enters the bullring, I managed to catch my hand against a gate, and I snapped my little finger. So, a few hours later I was in hospital with my fractured finger while others were there, covered in blood,” he laughs. “But I had a wonderful time and at that point everything seemed a bit aimless in the UK, so I thought I’d try to move to Spain.”

“There’s not a single town in Spain we didn’t play – I remember going to places where they didn’t have tarmac roads and there would be donkeys tethered in the corner”

Ever practical, he returned to the UK to undertake a course teaching English as a foreign language, which was his only weapon when he relocated to Madrid in March 1989. “I actually thought of going to Barcelona, but I was friends with Robin Wills, who was the guitarist in a band called the Barracudas, and he told me that Madrid was more rock and roll – more nightlife, more bars, more fun, so I took his advice.”

Wills also put Barnaby in touch with a DJ called Kike Turmix. “He was also the singer for The Pleasure Fuckers. Through him, I became firm friends with the band’s two American guitarists – Norah Findlay and Mike Sobieski – and when they kicked the bassist out a few months later, they asked if I wanted to join the band.”

Barnaby’s first show took him back to a familiar setting. “It was in Pamplona, of all places, a year after I had run with the bulls, but this time playing in a punk band. It was wild.”

It’s possible to earn a living doing something you love
Touring extensively with the band across Spain and beyond, The Pleasure Fuckers started to build a fanbase, and what began as a part-time endeavour, soon became a full-time affair. “We made enough money to live on, and the whole thing lasted about ten years,” states Barnaby. “There’s not a single town in Spain we didn’t play – I remember going to places where they didn’t have tarmac roads and there would be donkeys tethered in the corner and stuff.”

The band also toured around Europe, but it’s a show in the United States that Barnaby proclaims as one of his onstage highlights. “The tour was a double bill with another punk band called Nashville Pussy, and we were in Seattle, which was really exciting because that’s where the Sub Pop label was, and we knew a lot of people from other bands who came along to see us. It wasn’t a huge venue, but still, it was sold out to 700 people, and we were headlining that night. It was just this amazing feeling of ‘We’ve done it – we’ve made it.’ And the next day we played Bend, Oregon with four people in the room…”

Another band highlight was in Spain at the inaugural Festimad festival in Madrid where The Pleasure Fuckers appeared on the same stage as Rancid and Rage Against the Machine. “We played at about eight o’clock in the evening, and I remember looking over to the left, and all the guys from Rancid were there, nodding their heads to the music. A couple of songs later, I looked over to the right, and all the guys from Rage Against the Machine were there, nodding their heads.

“Festimad followed closely by the the US tour were great. But they proved to be the zenith of our career, we just didn’t know it at that point.”

“I had to change my initial way of doing things – The Pleasure Fuckers way – into something more professional”

However, it was a show in Switzerland that would provide Barnaby with his biggest life-changing moment. “One of our promoters was called Elie Muñiz, and it was like Cupid had fired his arrow: we just fell in love. And when the tour ended two months later in October 1997, she moved to Madrid.”

Twenty-six years later, Cupid is still at work, while Elie and Barnaby’s son Zack (17) is studying for his international baccalaureate, ahead of plans to attend university in his father’s native England.

“When I met Barnaby I was working as a promoter for the Vendetta Agency in Switzerland,” says Elie. “In an extremely unprofessional manner, I decided to leave everything for the sexy bass player of the band I was promoting! And here we are twenty-five years later!”

Play to your strengths
While Elie knew how to promote shows and had developed relationships with agents in London, that world was a mystery to Barnaby.

“But I did know everyone at all the venues in Spain – literally everywhere up to 1,000 or 1,500-cap. So we decided to set up as promoters. Prior to that I had been doing a bit of tour managing and I realised that in a lot of cases a bit more professionalism was needed – I’d arrive at a venue and nothing had been prepped. In fact, often I’d get to the venue and there was no one there. It was chaos. And I thought to myself, ‘I could do this a lot better.’”

The very first tour came courtesy of Russell Warby, then at the Agency Group. “It was a band called Royal Trux – an alternative rock band from the US, who we did three shows with. I went up to San Sebastian to welcome them and then came down to Madrid, where we had about 200 people in a 300-cap venue, meaning we lost money. But it was a great way to start, although I didn’t really have an idea of what I was doing.

“I’d been used to touring with The Pleasure Fuckers where, literally, we’d sleep on the promoter’s floor. Obviously, I wasn’t gonna ask Royal Trux to stay on my floor, but I tried too hard – I booked a cool hotel in a Bohemian area of Madrid. But I quickly realised that the band just wanted a nice clean hotel with 24-hour reception. And so that began a very quick learning curve of how to deal with bands. I had to change my initial way of doing things – The Pleasure Fuckers way – into something more professional.”

“If the band’s relaxed, then they’re more likely to have a great gig”

Showing musicians a bit of love pays dividends
Barnaby’s experience of life on the road proved invaluable. “I realised how important it was for the band to just feel at ease, so I’d make sure the backstage looked nice by bringing candles, nice food, and decent coffee so that it would smell good in the morning when people arrived. I’d basically go out of my way to make the tour manager and the band felt relaxed, because I knew how important that is, especially at smaller levels.

“When you’re touring in a van playing smaller capacity venues, you’re often far from home and missing your loved ones. And if you just feel a bit of love, then it can make such a difference for the whole day. If the band’s relaxed, then they’re more likely to have a great gig. So having done all that time on the road with The Pleasure Fuckers definitely stood me in good stead.”

That level of attention does not escape the talent. Rick Astley comments, “Working with Barnaby is truly amazing. He exudes professionalism and knows the business inside out, all whilst making it fun. He knows the best restaurants and wine in Spain, so who can’t love that?!”

Sharon Corr says, “I love working with Barnaby and Elie! They’re great people with an incredible knowledge and experience of the industry and music. We have become great friends over the years, and I always look forward to working with them, knowing that they pay great attention to all the details necessary for a great concert, venues, ticket sales, and a super show. Barnaby and Elie are fantastic at what they do!”

American quintet The National agree. “Barnaby has been a stalwart supporter of The National from our earliest days touring in Europe and has taken good care of us on stage and off,” the band say in a statement. “We look forward to more concerts together and seeing him standing backstage, sharp dressed as ever.”

Luck plays a major role in live music
Establishing the company and working with emerging talent saw Elie and Barnaby throwing themselves into Mercury Wheels with a passion that meant they were involved in the business 24/7 in those early days.

“The first act we had a hit with was Moby, who had just released Play. We got pretty lucky”

“The first act we had a hit with was Moby, who had just released Play,” Barnaby tells IQ. “We got pretty lucky. The agent was Ian Huffam, and for Mercury Wheels it was our first big international thing. Moby had been to Spain before, playing small venues like 300-capacity. But on the back of Play, we sold out a 1,200-cap club in Barcelona and about 1,800 in Madrid. But I was still green, so I’d be there to help with the load-in and the load-out because we didn’t have specific local production that we could rely on.

“In fact, we were still doing business via fax at that point. My friend, Mark Kitcatt, who ran Richard Branson’s Caroline imprint in Madrid was crucially benevolent as we started out and generously gave Elie and I some space in his warehouse. We had one computer between us, and we were surrounded by thousands of Prodigy records because The Fat of the Land was huge at the time.”

As the company’s reputation grew, Mercury Wheels were asked to help with booking the new Isladencanta Festival in Majorca. “Year one, we booked Ladytron and maybe one other band, and it all went so well that in the second year, we were asked if we could book the entire event. But then, of course, it went pear-shaped because the organiser didn’t have the money he said he did. But we’d booked it all, and we bought the Strokes for their first ever show in Spain through Russell Warby – he was always there and has been continually supportive to us. I remember Russell actually playing me one of their songs down the telephone, and we paid $1,000 because it was before the record was released. But then it blew up and we kept putting the Strokes higher and higher on the bill.”

Now a long-time agent at WME, Warby comments, “We first worked together on the mighty Royal Trux back in 1998, which only seems a minute ago. Barnaby is a lovely soul. His enthusiasm for music always shines through and he has great taste… in suits and literature, too.

“I remember telling him how much I enjoyed reading Laurie Lee’s As I Walked Out One Midsummer Morning and that it made me want to walk across Spain. He told me he loved that book also… so much so that he was inspired to move to Spain and actually did!”

Fellow WME agent David Levy adds, “It’s as much a pleasure to do business with Barnaby today as it was when I first met him as a small independent promoter. Transferring to a larger company, he hasn’t lost any of his excitement to make things happen.

“Perhaps the act I’m most grateful for his work on is Rick Astley because when we first took Rick on, lots of promoters weren’t ready to look at him in a contemporary way, but Barnaby immediately understood what we were trying to do and was one of the first promoters to really support him.”

“Booking the Strokes was important for us, but behind the scenes, we were suffering immensely because the money wasn’t there”

And that respect extends across multiple agencies. Alice Hogg at ATV Live states, “I first met Barnaby a decade ago when I was a shiny new agent at UTA. He wanted to book one of my artists at a boutique festival I’d never heard of at the time, and I made him pay the full fee upfront as I didn’t trust him (not yet understanding Mercury Wheels was part of Live Nation and they were absolutely good for the cash.) Little did I know he’d turn out to be the most trustworthy of them all, and I’d end up working alongside him on global Live Nation tours one day.

“Every call I’ve ever had with Barnaby (even when it’s bad news), I’ve put the phone down smiling. He’s a pleasure to do business with and a great friend.”

ATC Live founder Alex Bruford recalls his first encounter with Barnaby, vividly. “It was at the Moby Dick in Madrid. We were outside the venue, and he walked up in his trademark suit and shades, looking far cooler than anyone in the band. To this day, he still looks cooler than the bands! My artists love hanging out with Barnaby in Madrid – it’s almost always a tour highlight.

Bruford adds, “Barnaby is a brilliant and mercurial promoter, often coming up with unique plans to launch tours and always bringing his incredible sales analysis and projections to the table. He’s been an absolute rock for me, hugely supportive of myself and ATC Live since my first day as an agent. On top of that, he’s taken me for some of the most enjoyable meals in my life, and I consider him a true friend.”

Business partners can make or break you
“Booking the Strokes was important for us, but behind the scenes, we were suffering immensely because the money wasn’t there. So, in 2001, through no fault of our own, we went bankrupt, even though we’d booked an amazing bill for Isladencanta, including Goldfrapp and the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion.”

That episode resulted in Mercury Wheels having to take out a loan to get back on its feet. “You learn who to go into business with,” notes Barnaby, but on the back of that lesson, he and Elie secured a partner to take care of the financial side of things and were able to keep working with Isladencanta with great success.

“Ed [Sheeran] gave Mercury Wheels our first arena show. And then he gave us our first stadium show”

“The following year, we had Oasis and the Libertines. And then we did one more edition with Iggy Pop and Supergrass, but the cops came in and closed it down at midnight because there was a new government in Majorca that didn’t want to do the festival because they were getting pressure from the people who ran the island’s nightclubs. That was the end of it. In a way, I was happy to get out, but when I think about who we booked, it was pretty amazing, even though it was like walking on a knife edge the whole time. And it obviously helped give us credibility with the agents and allowed us to start doing bigger shows.”

With the confidence of the agents growing, Barnaby had a discussion with then Free Trade employee Jon Ollier about a young act he was working with called Ed Sheeran. “We talked about going to the Apollo in Barcelona, which was 1,000-cap, but it did not happen on that tour because they had to change the routing or something. But on Ed’s next tour, we did a 4,500-cap Sant Jordi Club in Barcelona, and the cut-down arena in Madrid, which we started at 5,000-cap and went right through to 8,000 or 9,000.

“Ed Sheeran remains the only person to have played the three venues in the San Jordi complex in succession. First the Sant Jordi Club, then the Arena which is 17,000-capacity, and then the stadium, which is 54,000, stepping up on each consecutive tour. But the confidence was always there because on that first visit, Mark Friend, Ed’s tour manager, said to me, ‘Next time, we’ll be playing the arena.’ So we went to look at the arena. And when Ed played the arena on the following tour, Mark said, ‘Next time, we’ll go to the stadium,’ so we went to look at that, too. And it happened.

“Ed gave Mercury Wheels our first arena show. And then he gave us our first stadium show.”

It’s possible to be independent and benefit from corporate assistance
Having made a big impression on the Spanish live music market, it was only a matter of time before the corporate giants made an approach, and in 2014, Live Nation Spain chairman Pino Sagliocco invited Barnaby for lunch. “He asked me if I’d ever thought about becoming part of a bigger company. I was unsure, but he said, ‘This is your chance. The train’s come into the station, but it’s only here once, and it’s not going to stay forever.’ So, we negotiated and eventually we reached an agreement that was good for all of us. And we officially linked up with Live Nation in 2015.”

Unlike other LN deals, the corporate parent did not acquire Mercury Wheels, however. “They never bought us,” explains Barnaby. “We’re under their umbrella, and we work within the structure of Live Nation, but we’re still independent. I always think of it as like one of those sub labels that are under the major record labels but who have their own independence within the major.”

“The greatest thing about working within Live Nation is that they are incredibly hands-off. I’ve never been told not to do anything. The only directive is to try to make shows work”

Nevertheless, the benefits of that lunch with Sagliocco are obvious as the association with Live Nation enters its tenth year, and Barnaby admits that alongside Elie, Sagliocco has been one of his greatest mentors. “When we do the big stadium shows, there’s a lot of money involved, and there’s a lot of legal stuff with the contracts, the rental of the venues, the marketing, the security, etc. Live Nation’s managing director in Spain, Paco Martinez, runs an incredibly tight and efficient ship.

“Paco’s ability and speed with the numbers is second to none in the business, and Elie & I have learnt an incredible amount from him. So having that team of Live Nation behind you makes things a lot smoother.

“At the same time, because we maintain a level of independence, we can be very nimble and act quickly to jump onto new projects. The greatest thing about working within Live Nation is that they are incredibly hands-off. I’ve never been told not to do anything. The only directive is to try to make shows work.”

Music remains at the heart of everything
With a roster that includes burgeoning act Twenty One Pilots and superstar Dua Lipa, Mercury Wheels continues to get bigger and bigger. “It feels good,” says Barnaby. Indeed, recently he’s added a new axle to the company’s chassis.

“We’re doing comedy now,” he reports. “Five or six years ago, comedy in English wouldn’t have worked in Spain. But thanks to streaming networks and comedy series, English-speaking comics doing routines have become popular here. We did Ricky Gervais, which was a big test for us. When he came on stage in Barcelona and made his first joke, the whole place just cracked up, which was a massive relief. I spoke to Ricky about this, as we had an extra pop-up on Ticketmaster, warning people that the show is fully in English – no subtitles, no dubbing, you must understand it. And you had to tick that box to then be able to buy the ticket. But it works well, so being involved in comedy is very exciting.”

That new string to the bow should see Mercury Wheels promoting between 100 and 120 shows this year. “That’s everything from 200-capacity clubs up to 55,000-cap stadiums, which isn’t bad for a core team of seven people in the office – and sometimes also Pino [Sagliocco], who shares our space whenever he comes to Madrid. He’s an amazing man – very dynamic and engaging, like a rock star – and I’ve been immensely lucky and privileged to learn from him, because he has a very global overview of the business works.”

“It’s important that we all have ways to deal with stress, so I’ve been meditating for the last seven years”

Relying on healthy and happy colleagues has never been more important
With Elie and Barnaby investing heavily in Mercury Wheels’ staff, most of the team – Maria Gaudelia, Will Anderson, José Luis, and Ricard Rois – are long-term employees, as was Irene Garcia until very recently, before she moved over to Live Nation’s ticketing dept, while newer additions include Alexandra Karpova, and new canine colleague, Stan, who joins the incumbent pup, Pukki. “When I visited Live Nation in Los Angeles, there are people who walk dogs around the building, which just helps bring people’s stress levels down. There’s actually a Dog Nation programme within the company.”

A big believer in meditation, Barnaby has been on a number of ten-day silent retreats and takes part in weekly mindfulness sessions through the Mindful Nation programme. “It’s important that we all have ways to deal with stress, so I’ve been meditating for the last seven years,” he reveals. “It teaches me to be a witness to my thoughts rather than automatically engaging with every thought that pops into my head! I’m a big advocate of taking care of people’s mental health.”

The love for Barnaby within the Mercury Wheels operation is palpable. Colleague Will Anderson tells IQ, “I had recently moved from London to Madrid [in 2015] and was trying to figure out what the future held having spent ten years in A&R in the UK. As a fellow Englishman in Madrid with a love of music, we immediately hit it off.

“Barnaby was incredibly gracious and generous with his time, explaining how the industry worked in Spain and introducing me to other Spanish music industry contacts. In 2016, after a year or so working outside the music industry, I mentioned that I was keen to get back in, and he said there might be an opening at Mercury Wheels. I joined the company in 2017 and have had the huge pleasure of working with and learning from one of the very best since then.

“Barnaby has not only built Mercury Wheels into the incredible company it is today, but he has done it with humanity, humour, love, and respect for all those he works with, be they his colleagues at Mercury Wheels and Live Nation, artists, agents, managers, tour managers, production crew, or the bar-person at the local 200-cap venue. His love of live music remains undimmed, and you only had to see him pogo-ing to Noah and the Loners at ILMC’s recent London Calling showcase to see that love manifested in all its glory!”

Anderson adds, “It would be remiss not to mention Barnaby’s wife and business partner, Elie Muñiz, without whom, as Barnaby regularly acknowledges, Mercury Wheels would not function. It has been an absolute pleasure working with and learning from them both for the last seven years, and I can’t wait to see Barnaby pogo-ing his way through another punk show in another 25 years’ time!”

“I love discovering new talent, so I’ve got a lot of time for anyone who is out there doing that”

Talking of which, The Pleasure Fuckers will be playing a one-off reunion gig at Azkena Rock Festival in Vitoria, this June, marking 25 years since Barnaby’s last show with the band.

On a professional level, another event Barnaby is looking forward to is Vida Festival in July. “I’ve booked all the international acts onto Vida since its inception back in 2014,” he says. “It’s a gorgeous boutique festival that takes place in the grounds of a country house, 40 mins south of Barcelona. There are two main stages and several smaller stages in the woods including the boat stage where we had Spanish megastar Rosalia play an unforgettable sunset slot when she was just starting out.”

Among the acts Barnaby has managed to secure for this year are headliners M.I.A, James Blake, and Vance Joy. “The philosophy of the festival is to create an amazing experience for the festivalgoer, from the food area under fairy lights in the woods, to the amazing main stages and the world renowned Wild Side Zone,” he says.

“The creative brain behind the festival is the energetic and charismatic Dani Poveda, supported by the ultra efficient Xavi Carbonell.”

With a move to Live Nation’s offices in Madrid imminent, Barnaby is also relishing the creative opportunities this will bring to the Mercury Wheels team. “We’re a very close team and that’s partly because we work in an open office, so I’m really looking forward to the symbiosis that the new arrangement will give us. I personally cannot wait to work closer with Robert Grima, Nacho Córdoba, Daniel López, Julio Ebrat, and Johanna Llorente, while I’m super-impressed with the work that César Andión is doing to develop young Spanish acts.

“I love discovering new talent, so I’ve got a lot of time for anyone who is out there doing that. Ultimately, I’m a punk at heart, so I still love doing the 200-cap shows in the sweaty clubs, and I get as much of a kick out of doing the small shows as I do the giant ones.”

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IQ 126 out now: The 1975, Country, Mid-level touring

IQ 126, the latest issue of the international live music industry’s favourite magazine, is available to read online now.

The April/May edition goes behind the scenes of The 1975’s Still… At Their Very Best tour, examines the rapid rise of country music around the world, and explores the difficulties facing the mid-tier of the live music touring business.

Elsewhere, the issue marks Mercury Wheels co-founder Barnaby Harrod’s 25 years as a promoter, dives into Switzerland’s thriving industry, and reports on the 36th edition of ILMC.

For this edition’s comments and columns, Pembe Tokluhan shares the inspiration behind launching a company that strives to increase representation of women, trans, and non-binary people working behind the scenes of live events.

In addition, creative comms guru Ella McWilliam (Full Fat) monitors the rapidly changing media landscape and provides tips on how festivals can entice Gen Z to become ticket-buying customers.

As always, the majority of the magazine’s content will appear online in some form in the next four weeks.

However, if you can’t wait for your fix of essential live music industry features, opinion and analysis, click here to subscribe to IQ from just £8 a month – or check out what you’re missing out on with the limited preview below:

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Is a mid-level touring crisis emerging?

The litany of challenges facing the live industry – from breaking acts to gaming – came under the microscope in ILMC’s Touring: The Bread & Butter Business session.

Chaired by One Fiinix Live founder Jon Ollier, the panel featured Jan Digneffe of FKP Scorpio Belgium, Mercury Wheels/Live Nation Spain’s Barnaby Harrod, Finland-based Fullsteam founder Rauha Kyyro of FKP and agent Marsha Vlasic, president of Independent Artist Group in the US.

While the top end of the business is booming with record earnings for A-list tours, the discussion focused its attention on the potential crisis emerging in the mid-level.

Kyyro suggested the sector was struggling not only with high ticket prices, but from competition from other forms of media – such as video games.

“I think we’re losing out on a lot of young people going to the shows to get that experience because, well, first of all, the ticket prices are high. And also the market has changed in other ways, too,” she said. “But it actually might be a better 90 minute experience to play Fortnite than to go and see to a little show. If you look at what’s happened with gaming, just as an example, it’s developed so much faster than our live experience has. But the price of the live experience is going up all the time.”

“There’s a whole generation that don’t leave their rooms… They don’t even think about going to a live show”

Vlasic agreed the shift in habits among younger people was an issue.

“There’s a whole generation that don’t leave their rooms, and they know an act by one song,” she said. “They don’t even have the desire to go for the live experience. They’re very content on their group chats and TikTok and just discovering new songs, not artists. And that’s the worrisome generation, because they don’t even think about going to a live show.”

Vlasic added that the reluctance of some artists – particularly those outside the United States – to embrace VIP ticketing was a growing source of frustration.

“VIP is huge,” she said. “We had a package two summers ago that broke every record. But I have artists that just won’t do it. And it’s so frustrating because again, they don’t understand the value of it. It’s actually mostly non American artists that don’t allow it. But it’s such a big source of additional income.”

The subject switched to the topic of festival headliners, as Kyyro warned against an over-reliance on big name talent.

“We gave up on trying to get a seven-figure acts and we just focused on whatever we actually have access to and that the audience actually likes”

“If you’re really dependent on getting those few big names, then that’s going to kill your budget,” she said. “You’re probably not even going to even make any money unless you sell out.

“The key is to build a brand that is not so much dependent on having the number one artist every year. Provinssi, which is a Finnish festival we work with, has been around for over 40 years and it has had its ups and downs. I think the reason it’s now doing so well is that we gave up on trying to get a seven-figure acts and we just focused on whatever we actually have access to and that the audience actually likes. Then it doesn’t need to sell out, but we can still keep it going.”

The rise of joint headline and packaged tours was also touched upon, with Vlasic suggesting the acts do not necessarily have to be a perfect fit.

“As bigger acts are getting off the festivals and going into stadiums, the only way to do it is to piggyback and share the cost of the production,” she said. “It doesn’t have to be completely compatible, it’s just entertainment. When you think of packaging an act… it’s [about], how does this package look in terms of bringing in additional people and different audiences?

“[But] so many of them want to headline on their own and the market is saturated. I don’t know how to the summer’s going to do this year – and everybody’s gone on sale so much sooner.”

Some people need to step down from their throne in order to be able to play better venues

While Digneffe applauded the concept, he cautioned that persuading all parties of its merit was easier said than done.

“I think it’s an it’s an interesting idea, but you have trouble getting everybody on board,” he said. “If you look at the metal and the hard rock scene, there is a lot more going on and there is a lot more understanding between bands as well.

“We all know it’s an ego business. But I think that some people need to step down from their throne in order to be able to play better venues, and that will make the costs go down. It’s a more fun night for the punter anyway, so I see nothing but advantages. But to get it done, you need everybody on board. You need the agents to be on board. You need the management to be on board.”

“The metal thing is true,” added Harrod. “I went to see four metal bands in a 300-cap club in Barcelona. The kids had a great time.”

There was concern, however, about the lay of the land for breaking acts, and the apparent dearth of viable new headliners. Digneffe believed the focus on global tours was hurting those lower down the food chain.

“If I hear more streaming numbers I’ll go crazy. It’s just maddening – and streaming numbers don’t sell tickets”

“What is frustrating everybody about these world tours is this cherry picking that’s going on all the time,” said Digneffe. “I don’t want to be like a preacher in a church or anything, but the cherry picking also comes with a responsibility to look after the next generation. No one is doing that at the moment and I think that’s a real problem. The promoters that find solutions for that will help keep our business healthy.”

Vlasic lamented the obsession with streaming numbers, arguing they can give a false impression of an artist’s worth on the live scene.

“It’s all about the streaming and if I hear more streaming numbers I’ll go crazy,” she said. “It’s just maddening – and streaming numbers don’t sell tickets. I’ve always prided myself in working with career artists. How do we develop groups? It’s a really frightening thought.”

Harrod, meanwhile, remained hopeful that the tried and tested approach to building rising stars would still bear fruit going forward.

“We have to be proactive,” he said. “We have to get out, we have to support the new acts. Push them, get them out, and that’s it. It’s always been that. Nothing is easy. It’s [about] supporting bands, keeping doing those 200 and 300-cap shows and enjoying them.”

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The Great Refund Debate

With fans still sitting on event tickets that they bought as long ago as 2019, the industry is facing a dilemma when it comes to who merits a refund and who does not. And as Covid becomes endemic, should refunds remain obligatory for ticketholders who test positive? James Hanley investigates.

The race to contain Covid-19 outbreaks and variants over the last 24 months has been likened to a game of Whac-A-Mole. But as the international live music business begins to emerge from the horror of the pandemic, it will need its own mallet at the ready to combat the litany of fresh problems popping up day-to-day.

One of the more mundane but contentious debates to be sparked in recent months surrounds the matter of refunds. The issue was brought to the fore by Dead & Company and promoter CID Presents’ Playing in the Sand destination festival, which was set for Mexico’s Riviera Cancún over two weekends in January this year.

Amid the omicron surge of late 2021, organisers opened a 48-hour refund window for fans having second thoughts about attending (all ticketholders were ultimately refunded when the event was pulled at the 11th hour due to a spike in infections). However, CID declined to repeat the offer for its other January festivals: Crash My Playa and HootieFest: The Big Splash.

“If, at any point during the two weeks leading up to a particular event, the CDC Risk Assess- ment Level for Covid-19 for the Quintana Roo (Cancún) region of Mexico rises to a Level 4 or Mexico designates the area unsafe to hold an event, we will be offering full refunds to those not wishing to attend the particular event,” said a statement by the promoter. “We continue to recommend buying travel insurance, which may help protect against the risks of Covid-19 and travelling internationally during the pandemic.”

It was a similar situation at Wilco’s Sky Blue Sky “concert vacation” in Mexico, also in Janu- ary, produced by Cloud 9, The Bowery Presents, and Higher Ground Presents, which stressed its no-refund policy and encouraged festivalgoers to purchase travel insurance. “A refund, or the ability to hold one’s spot for a rescheduled date, will be available to purchasers if the event were to be postponed,” Cloud 9 told Billboard.

But far from limited to sun-drenched getaways, the refund question is pertinent at all levels of the industry, in every market across the globe. “There is a set Live Nation policy across the board,” explains Barnaby Harrod of Mercury Wheels, part of Live Nation Spain. “When an event is cancelled, you get an automatic refund. With reprogramming, the original tickets are, of course, valid for the new dates. However, if some- body can’t make the new show, or doesn’t want to, they have 21 days to ask for a refund, and that has been applied across the pandemic.”

Certain events and promoters also offer refunds or a voucher for anyone who is unable to attend due to testing positive. Harrod advises that every claim is assessed on its own merits.

“For exceptional refunds, which are requested outside the established timeframe, we work on a case-by-case basis,” he says. “So in the current climate, where the government has restrictions in place for people who have Covid, if somebody can certify that they have Covid, then they should be entitled to a refund.”

Elsewhere in Europe, AEG Presents France GM Arnaud Meersseman points to France’s “very protective” consumer laws, which allow customers to claim refunds up to five years after the event.

“Obviously, if a show is rescheduled or can- celled, it’s an automatic refund and there’s no discussion there whatsoever,” he tells IQ. “As for no-shows, as of today, they can warrant a refund. But we’ve seen in practice that it’s not really the case, as a lot of people don’t ask for them.

“The last big show I did was December at the Zenith Paris, and out of 6,000 tickets, we had 20% no-shows. The only other big shows I had be- tween September and December were two nights of Nick Cave, but they were seated shows at 2,000- cap each, and we had almost zero no-shows.

“Over here, what most people have done in practice is wait out a month in terms of refund requests, and if those refund requests haven’t come in during that time, we settle off the show basically. But that’s not really the law, I mean, people can ask for refunds after five years. But we’ve noticed that essentially, past one month, there’ll be the odd refund request here and there, but it’s really rare.”

DEAG executive Detlef Kornett says it is difficult to make general statements due to the fragmented nature of the German market but suggests most promoters have maintained a flexible approach to refunds.

“We have demonstrated a lot of flexibility and offered customers the opportunity to re-book their ticket if and when possible, use it for a different show, get a voucher, or in certain instances, even reimburse the ticket value,” he says. “That was true also if they were unable to attend due to Covid.”

DEAG’s UK subsidiary Kilimanjaro Live returned to action in August 2021, staging two arena dates by Gorillaz at The O2 in London. Kili CEO Stuart Galbraith attempts to sum-up the story so far.

“We never get 100% attendance – between 3% and 5% of people indoors and up to 10% outdoors buy tickets and then just don’t come – but we were back up at 95-97% attendance rates all the way through September, October, and November,” he says. “Then as omicron started to come into play and we headed into Christmas, those rates started to drop again to as little as 70% on some occasions.

“When we came back after Christmas, almost instantly, those attendance rates went back up to 95-97%, and that’s where they’ve been ever since. But what was very interesting is that virtually none of the customers who didn’t attend the shows before Christmas asked us for refunds. They’d just decided they weren’t going out and would take it on the chin.”

He continues: “The analogy I’ve used over the last couple of years is that, if you had an EasyJet flight booked that cost you £20 to £40, in my personal experience, I haven’t bothered to ask for a refund on that because I can’t be bothered. It’s just one of those things. However, if I’ve got a transatlantic flight, which is worth several hundred quid or thousands of pounds, I do want a refund on it. And I think that tickets and concert tickets fall into that EasyJet category – I don’t think people can be bothered to ask for the refund, to be quite frank.”

“People have almost been treating a ticket like something they bought off Amazon and saying, ‘Oh, we don’t really fancy that now,’ the day before. And at that point, what do you want the festival organiser to do about it?”

Paul Reed, CEO of the UK’s Association of Independent Festivals (AIF), reveals the organisation took legal advice with regards to refunds last year on behalf of its 90 members – and reached a definitive conclusion.

“The fact is a consumer is not legally entitled to a refund if they’re isolating and not allowed to travel, in the same way as if they were unable to travel for any other reason,” asserts Reed. “The view was that, ultimately, the customer is not due a refund, but I think it’s a decision that has to be up to the individual event. It is entirely at their discretion and there is no obligation. But from speaking to others in the industry, my sense is that it is being assessed on a case-by-case basis, irrespective of the legal situation.”

Reed adds that some AIF members have ex- pressed concerns that a “refund culture” has seeped in among punters.

“Perhaps it’s understandable, but people have almost been treating a ticket like something they bought off Amazon and saying, ‘Oh, we don’t really fancy that now,’ the day before. And at that point, what do you want the festival organiser to do about it?” he sighs. “You’re not due a refund, but I think that mindset has permeated a little bit more throughout festivals and live experiences – customer expectation shifting – and people feeling more entitled to a refund when it is more complicated than that.

“When you buy a ticket, it is binding, and that is all very clear in the Ts and Cs. I think customers need to understand a little bit more about what they’re committed to when they buy a ticket, so I don’t know whether some education is needed around that.”

Fans no longer able or willing to attend events are encouraged to sell on their tickets via face-value resale sites.

“Specific insurance is also available to the customer as a voluntary upsell, and I believe some travel insurance policies also cover it,” says Reed.

Guy Dunstan is MD, ticketing and arenas for Birmingham-based NEC Group, which manages five of the UK’s leading indoor venues including Birmingham’s Resorts World Arena and Utilita Arena, as well as national ticketing agency The Ticket Factory. He tells IQ the company has been proactive on the issue by offering ticket insurance with Covid cover included.

“I know that some venues and ticketing companies have been hit harder than others with regards to the refund situation,” says Dunstan. “We’ve been offering ticket protection insurance to customers for a significant period of time, so the refunds we’ve given have been pretty minimal because we’ve been able to point customers to the fact that they were offered the insurance at the time when they purchased the tickets.

“We were able to get that as cover quite early on in the pandemic through the ticket insurance provider that we work with, and it’s been of real benefit to us. So our sense is that we’re well protected from that moving forward.”

Down under, Live Performance Australia (LPA) administers the ticketing code of practice for the entertainment industry that outlines consumers’ rights to a refund. First released in 2001, the trade body reviewed and updated the code in 2020.

“While the impetus for the most recent changes was the Covid-19 pandemic, LPA was conscious to ensure any updates have a life beyond Covid-19,” says the group’s CEO Evelyn Richardson. “The ticketing code was widely used by the industry pre-Covid and will continue to be the go-to resource about refunds as Covid-19 moves to becoming endemic and beyond.”

Richardson says the LPA expects its members to treat ticketholders fairly if shows are forced to can- cel or are postponed due to government mandates.

“Whether ticketholders are entitled to a refund, exchange or other remedy will depend upon the ticket terms and conditions applicable when tickets were purchased,” she states. “Many companies have a Covid refund and exchanges policy, which sets out if ticketholders will get a refund, exchange or credit note if they are un- well with Covid symptoms, unable to attend the event due to contracting Covid, awaiting test results, [have been] in close contact, or [due to] border closure.”

With the world slowly emerging from the pandemic, the conversation turns to how flexible the live industry will be as things return to something like normal. Richardson indicates there could still be room for a little leeway.

“Ordinarily, if a ticketholder is unable to attend the event because they are unwell or other personal circumstance, they are not entitled to an automatic refund under Australian consumer law,” she says. “However, event organisers always have discretion to provide a refund or other remedy, if they wish, even though there may not be a legal requirement to do so.”

UK prime minister Boris Johnson has already announced the ‘Living with Covid-19’ plan, which has put an end to the legal requirement in England to self-isolate after a positive Covid test. Free testing has also been scrapped, although that isn’t an issue everywhere.

“They’ve never had free Covid tests in Spain,” testifies Madrid-based Harrod. “You would always have to go to the chemist to buy one.”

For Galbraith, however, the ramifications for the sector’s refund policy are obvious.

“Realistically, now that Covid has no legal status over and above any other disease, then that’s it, life is back to normal from an event organiser’s point of view,” he offers. “If somebody has flu, chickenpox, mumps, or whatever, and they can’t go to the show, then, unfortunately, that’s just part of life, and I think the same will be true of Covid.

“In the last two years, we have seen a significant increase in the number of customers taking out personal insurance on their tickets. For a very small percentage of the ticket cost, you can insure your ticket in the way that you can a holiday or anything else. That insurance, in many cases, does actually give you illness cover. So I think that is an easy customer solution going forward.”

“Now the isolation rules have changed, and you don’t have to isolate, then I think it just becomes like any other illness,” agrees Dunstan. “We all have to take a sense of responsibility to make sure that we’re healthy and well [enough] to be going to events. But as for venues and companies that have been offering refunds if you can demonstrate you are Covid positive, I can just see that going away.”

On that point, there appears to be something approaching a consensus.

“Once it is endemic, Covid would most likely not be a reason that entitles you to a refund as such anymore,” muses DEAG’s Kornett.

“At the end of the day, if somebody has gastroenteritis or common flu, or gets grounded by their parents because they have bad grades, do you refund them?” concludes Paris-based Meersseman. “At some point, there is no law in this, it’s going to be commercial practice. Once this virus becomes endemic and breaks out of the pandemic stage, I don’t see us offering refunds for people who have Covid.”

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