Live Nation talks DoJ, all-in pricing, festivals
Live Nation president and CFO Joe Berchtold has spoken out on a range of issues including the company’s all-in pricing success and the US Department of Justice’s (DoJ) investigation into the firm.
Speaking yesterday (21 May) at JP Morgan’s 52nd annual global technology, media and communications conference, Berchtold responded to LN’s disclosure that its all-in ticket pricing policy, which shows customers the total price and fees associated with their tickets upfront, has resulted in an 8% increase in completed sales in its first six months.
“We were pleasantly surprised,” said Berchtold. “That showed that fans not being surprised by an add-on price down the road meant that they were more likely to buy.
“I think it’s the right first step for us. I think it’s the right step for the industry. If you take a step back in the conversation over the past year and a half about ticketing – particularly on the legislative side – it went from us being the demons, the root of all evils in the industry, to a lot of education. And the conversations today on the legislative side tend to be very different; they tend to be very focused on what are reasonable consumer protections.”
Last week, the US House of Representatives voted to pass the TICKET Act, which aims to ensure transparent pricing for consumers and was the most comprehensive consumer protection ticketing legislation to receive a floor vote in eight years. Live Nation was among a number of companies in the US that pledged to adopt “all-in” ticket pricing last summer.
“I’m hopeful that we’re now on a path, all-in ticketing being the first step, of some pretty common sense reforms in ticketing”
“I’m hopeful that we’re now on a path, all-in ticketing being the first step, of some pretty common sense reforms in ticketing that will be good for the fans and will be good for the artists,” added Berchtold.
Following a Wall Street Journal report that the DoJ is expected to file an antitrust lawsuit against LN in the coming weeks, Berchtold revealed that talks were ongoing with the department at a senior level.
“We’re now in discussions with the senior division leadership, which is generally the last part of the process,” he said. “These are always serious discussions, it wouldn’t get to this point if they didn’t have concerns, but the good news is we’re still talking and they’ve said they have an open mind.
“Without getting into the real details of the conversation… I continue to believe that we fundamentally have business practices that are fully defensible. But we’re also open to figuring out common ground in order to get this settled and moved on. What we don’t know is exactly what they want at this point still. If you look at the Apple case, from my view, you have some similarities that it seems to be some discrete business issues where they ultimately decided they wanted to take action against the broader platform as opposed to sorting the specific issues.
“As I said, we’re continuing the conversations and we’ll keep showing up and continue them as long as they are interested in doing so. But I think we’re getting to the late stages now of it.”
“It’s a very competitive market… It doesn’t get easier, it gets harder”
According to WSJ sources, the lawsuit will claim the Ticketmaster parent has abused its market-leading position in the ticketing business to harm competition. But Berchtold played down suggestions that exclusivity deals would be a particular focus.
“It’s a bit of a red herring,” he said. “If you’re a venue, you’re saying, ‘Wait a minute, why is somebody telling me I need to work with multiple systems?’ We just find that that’s not generally what the venues are asking for… At the highest level, what they care about are two things. One is, is the platform going to sell the most tickets for me? And then secondly is, just what are the financial terms of the deal?
“I think if you stopped a manager on the street and said, ‘What building [do] you want your artists to go into?’ They’ll say, ‘Well, what’s going to sell the most tickets and gross the most money for my artist?’ So if you’re a venue in a competitive world, trying to get those shows, that’s what’s going to ultimately really matter to your decision.
“It’s a very competitive market. Don’t let any of the press reports fool you. Every renewal that we have, it’s what you expect in today’s world. It doesn’t get easier, it gets harder.”
Below, are a few other highlights from the conversation with Berchtold…
“You’ll continue to see us very active, particularly on the venue front in South America, Europe, Asia”
2024 ticket sales…
“It continues to be a very strong year. I think as of now we’d be at about 100 million concert tickets sold, up a couple of percent, so it’s accelerated a little bit. As we’ve long said, stadiums are quieter this year, but arenas, amphitheatres, theatres and clubs, ticket sales are up double digits across all of those different venue types. So continuing, they think this is going to be a very good year in particular for shows at our own venues.
“On the Ticketmaster side, we’ve sold about 140 million tickets, so up around 5%. So [consumer demand] continues to be very strong. We’re feeling very good about where we are as we head into the summer season.”
M&A strategy…
“You’ll continue to see us very active, particularly on the venue front in South America, Europe, Asia, all over as we continue to try to build that. I think you’ll still see some promoter acquisitions, again, with South America, Asia as the primary targets as we further expand our footprint in those markets. So no slowdown in appetite or discussions.”
Festivals…
“We’ve got some creative people that have come up with some great festival ideas… The best example is When We Were Young, which we launched in Vegas a year and a half or so ago. It’s pop-punk. I remember when the lineup came out, if you looked at [social media], it was, ‘This has got to be fake. There’s no way they can have this group of acts in one day. This is a Fyre Festival. It’s not going to happen.’ But so then what happened is it was set up as a one-day festival, but we did it five days. So we repeated it five times because there was so much demand for it.
“I think it’s complementary with the Lollapaloozas of the world, Austin City Limits, BottleRock, See.Hear.Now. You’re still seeing a lot of these do well, but you’ve got this… emergence of these new festival types. It’s taking a minute to figure out how to work with sponsors on something that, rather than being a three-day event, is many one-day events with a new audience generally each day. So I always look at it as glass half full: that means more opportunity as we figure that out. That’s another area of growth that we have.”
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‘A momentous day’: TICKET Act passes in the US
Campaigners have welcomed a “huge step forward” for live event ticketing reform after the US House of Representatives voted to pass the TICKET Act, which aims to ensure transparent pricing for consumers.
The bill, which passed by 388 votes to 24, is the most comprehensive consumer protection ticketing legislation to receive a floor vote since the BOTS Act passed in 2016.
If enacted, it will enforce all-in pricing, ban speculative ticketing, ban deceptive websites and deceptive website marketing, provide fans with a full refund to cancelled events and require a report from the Federal Trade Commission on BOTS Act Enforcement.
“Today marks the furthest federal live event ticketing reform has gone in nearly a decade,” says a statement by the Ticket Buyer Bill of Rights Coalition, which was founded in February 2023 by leading consumer and fan advocacy organisations. “We applaud them for their leadership and their willingness to engage all stakeholders, especially consumer protection organisations, in seeking a truly comprehensive reform package which has consensus by virtually every stakeholder in the debate.”
Brian Hess, executive director of Sports Fans Coalition, hails the vote as “a momentous day for live event ticketing reform”.
“If enacted, this bill will guarantee fans all-in pricing, prohibitions on several deceptive sales tactics, and refund requirements for cancelled events”
“If enacted, this bill will guarantee fans all-in pricing, prohibitions on several deceptive sales tactics, and refund requirements for cancelled events,” he says. “We hope the Senate will pass this vital legislation and that President Biden will sign it shortly thereafter.”
Live Nation was among a number of companies in the US that pledged to adopt “all-in” ticket pricing last summer, and revealed ahead of the Senate hearing that its programme was responsible for an 8% increase in completed sales in its first six months.
“Showing the total cost to walk in the door upfront is better for fans and artists,” said CEO Michael Rapino. “We’re proud to have led the industry in adapting this common sense policy.”
Last year, 19 organisations from across the music industry came together to form the Fix the Tix coalition to “collectively advocate for a ticketing experience better than the nightmare many fans and artists currently navigate”. The coalition comprises firms such as Wasserman, See Tickets, Universal Music Group, Dice and the National Independent Talent Organization (NITO).
“We commend the House on passing the TICKET Act, an important step towards making comprehensive ticket legislation federal law,” says NITO MD Nathaniel Marro. “NITO now calls on the Senate to pass the Fans First Act, which includes a total ban on speculative tickets and requires itemized ticket fees at the beginning of purchase so that fans know the price they will pay and the price the artist intended. We will continue our work to move comprehensive ticket legislation forward.”
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LN credits all-in pricing for 8% sales uptick
Live Nation reports that its all-in ticket pricing policy has resulted in an 8% increase in completed sales in the programme’s first six months.
The initiative, which shows customers the total price and fees associated with their tickets upfront, has been rolled out across all Live Nation venues and festivals in the US. As well as delivering greater transparency for fans, the company says it has increased sales for artists and seen fewer abandoned carts at checkout.
The data comes as policymakers in the House prepare to vote on the TICKET Act, which aims to ensure transparent pricing for consumers among other ticket reforms.
“Showing the total cost to walk in the door upfront is better for fans and artists”
“Showing the total cost to walk in the door upfront is better for fans and artists,” says Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino. “We’re proud to have led the industry in adapting this common sense policy, and we encourage Congress to enact a nationwide law so every ticket buyer benefits from this transparency, no matter where they are buying their tickets.”
Live Nation was among a number of companies in the US that pledged to adopt “all-in” ticket pricing last summer. It has also supported the passage of all-in pricing laws in states including California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maryland, Minnesota, New York and Tennessee.
However, it warns that many resale platforms are still not compliant with these state-led transparency standards and is encouraging consumers to report illegal drip pricing on other ticketing platforms to their state Attorney General’s office.
Live Nation also backs other ticketing reforms that benefit consumers including banning speculative ticketing, allowing artists to cap resale markups, and enhancing legislation against buying tickets with bots.
All-in pricing could also be mandated in the UK as part of proposed legislation passed in the House of Lords. A recent report from consumer body Which? revealed that “bewildering” and “sneaky” additional fees make up 25% of UK gig ticket prices.
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New legislation could mandate all-in pricing in UK
All-in ticket pricing could be mandated in the UK as part of proposed legislation passed in the House of Lords.
The Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill had its third reading yesterday (26 March), which included an amendment relating to “drip-feeding” of additional ticket fees by Lord Malcolm Offord.
“This amendment… requires a trader to set out in an invitation to purchase the total price of a product including any mandatory fees, taxes and charges that apply to the purchase of a product rather than ‘drip-feeding’ such amounts during the transaction process,” it reads.
The Bill will now be returned to the House of Commons for further debate.
Live Nation was among a number of companies in the US that pledged to adopt “all-in” ticket pricing – which allows fans to see the full ticket price upfront, including fees – last summer.
The Ticketmaster parent enforced all-in pricing “for concerts at the venues and festivals the company operates across the United States” from last September, having advocated for all-in pricing to become law for many years. In 2023, it joined with an industry-wide coalition to promote FAIR Ticketing Reforms.
“Ticketmaster supports legislation that requires all-in pricing across the industry,” Ticketmaster MD Andrew Parsons tells IQ.
“This amendment imposes requirements on secondary tickets sites”
A recent report from consumer body Which? revealed that “bewildering” and “sneaky” additional fees make up 25% of UK gig ticket prices after looking at fees charged by Ticketmaster, See Tickets, AXS, Eventim and Dice.
In response, Ticketmaster told Rolling Stone UK that fees are “typically set by and shared with our clients”, while Eventim said: “All mandatory fees are mentioned on page one of the booking process, and nothing is added that the customer wasn’t made aware of from the start.” Dice said: “Fans see the full price upfront, and there are no nasty surprises at the end.”
A further amendment to the UK Bill, put forward by longtime anti-touting campaigner Lord Tim Clement-Jones, would impact the secondary ticketing market by requiring resale platforms to see proof of purchase when tickets are listed for resale.
“This amendment imposes requirements on secondary tickets sites regarding proof of purchase, ticket number limits and the provision of information, with the aim of reducing fraud,” continues the Bill.
The requirements are in line with the recommendations made in a 2021 report by the Competition and Markets Authority to tighten laws around online ticket touting, which were rejected by the UK government in May last year.
The British competition regulator proposed stronger rules to deal with illegal activity on non-price-capped secondary ticketing sites. Its guidance also included measures to clamp down on the bulk-buying of tickets as well as the practice of “speculative ticketing”, where sellers list tickets they don’t yet own.
An additional amendment proposed relates to the sale of tickets received by trustees of registered charities
Other suggestions included ensuring platforms are fully responsible for incorrect information about tickets that are listed for sale on their websites, and a new system of licensing for platforms that sell secondary tickets that would enable an authority to act quickly and issue sanctions.
However, then business secretary Kevin Hollinrake said he was “not convinced” by the need for additional legislative changes.
“I am not convinced that the additional costs that would fall on ticket buyers (as regulatory costs would be passed on) are justified by the degree of harm set out in your report,” said the Conservative MP. “This is especially the case when we are already proposing to give the CMA additional administrative powers to protect consumers which the CMA could deploy in the secondary ticketing market.
“However, we propose to keep the position on maximum numbers of ticket resales under review as part of our ongoing monitoring of the legislative landscape in the ticketing market and in the light of technological, enforcement and other market developments.”
Finally, an additional amendment proposed by Lord Colin Moynihan relates to the sale of tickets received by trustees of registered charities.
“Trustees of registered charities who receive tickets as a result of their position as a trustee must not sell those tickets through secondary ticketing facilities for more than face value plus a handling charge,” it says.
A request by the Charity Commission that London’s Royal Albert Hall be referred to a charity tribunal over concerns its trustees – seat owners who control the London venue, but can also profit from selling tickets – had a conflict of interest, was reportedly refused in 2021.
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Michael Rapino responds to all-in pricing concerns
Michael Rapino has defended Ticketmaster against criticism that it is yet to fully implement “all-in” ticket pricing on its platform.
US Senator Amy Klobuchar wrote to the LN president and CEO last week to request an update on the firm’s price transparency efforts following its pledge to provide all-in pricing – which allows fans to see the full ticket price upfront, including fees – for concerts at the venues and festivals it operates across the US.
“In return for their business and trust, your customers expect a transparent and honest ticket buying process free from hidden fees,” read Klobuchar’s letter. “Live Nation-Ticketmaster, however, has not yet made the all-in ticket price – including fees – the default setting for its platform.
“For many events, including those for its own venues, it is still too difficult to see the all-in price before checkout. In most instances, consumers must find and select a filter buried within a tab that gives no indication that it contains an option to display all-in pricing. The existence of this filter shows that Live Nation-Ticketmaster has the technical ability to display all-in prices but chooses not to display that price to consumers as the default setting.”
“You have a responsibility to be upfront with customers about the full cost of their tickets”
Klobuchar acknowledged that Live Nation-Ticketmaster does not set all of the fees charged on its platform, but suggested it had a “responsibility to be upfront with customers about the full cost of their tickets”.
“I expect that Live Nation-Ticketmaster will take additional steps to honour your commitment by continuing to roll out transparent pricing tools that disclose all-in ticket prices to consumers prior to checkout,” she added.
In his response to Klobuchar, Rapino reiterated the company agrees that tickets to live entertainment events “should be marketed, listed and sold to fans using the full ticket price, all per ticket fees included”.
“We have supported mandatory all-in pricing legislation for years,” he said. “And unlike several of our major competitors, Ticketmaster complies with both the letter and spirit of existing all-in pricing laws.”
Live Nation joined with an industry-wide coalition earlier this year to promote FAIR Ticketing Reforms and attended a forum at the White House hosted by US president Joe Biden over the summer to discuss the move along with other potential reforms. Biden unveiled new plans to further clamp down on “junk fees” on tickets for events such as concerts earlier this month.
“Without all-in pricing legislation, there will be patchwork adoption of all-in pricing at best”
“We were proud to participate in President Biden’s June 15 White House forum on transparent pricing,” continued Rapino. “In advance of that event, the President’s team asked us if we could move all of Ticketmaster’s sales to all-in pricing. We explained that Ticketmaster does not have the unilateral right to do that, as it is an agent for the venues that issue tickets and along with content owners (artists, sports teams, etc.) determine ticket pricing and how fees are displayed.
“However, Live Nation also operates concert venues and festivals in the US, and therefore we could institute all-in pricing at those venues and festivals. We therefore announced at the White House forum on June 15 that Live Nation would adopt all-in pricing ‘for concerts at the venues and festivals the company operates across the United States starting this September.’ We have met that commitment.
“It is true that we have not adopted all-in pricing for the many events that take place at venues owned or operated by other companies, but that is because we have no right to impose all-in pricing on those events.”
Rapino added that the situation underscored the importance of all-in pricing legislation.
“Not everyone in the live entertainment industry shares our views on all-in pricing,” he concluded. “Without all-in pricing legislation, there will be patchwork adoption of all-in pricing at best.”
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Ticketing biz reacts to ‘all-in’ pricing pledge
Music companies and organisations have delivered their verdicts on Joe Biden’s announcement on ticket fee transparency.
The US president confirmed yesterday (15 June) that Live Nation and SeatGeek have pledged to adopt “all-in” ticket pricing, which will allow fans to see the full ticket price upfront, including fees.
Live Nation says it will begin providing all-in pricing experience this September for concerts at the venues and festivals it operates across the US.
“Live Nation is proud to provide fans with a better ticket buying experience,” says Tom See, president of LN’s Venue Nation. “We have thousands of crew working behind the scenes every day to help artists share their music live with fans, and we’ll continue advocating for innovations and reforms that protect that amazing connection.”
The company has advocated for all-in pricing to become law for many years, and joined with an industry-wide coalition earlier this year to promote FAIR Ticketing Reforms. Live Nation attended a forum at the White House yesterday hosted by Biden to discuss the move and other potential reforms.
“The president’s commitment to scrap junk fees is a huge step forward for a more enjoyable, more equitable live experience”
Biden, who called out “junk fees” in his State of the Union address earlier this year, was joined by representatives of firms who have made new commitments, as well as platforms that already provide all-in pricing as part of their business models, such as Dice and the Newport Festivals Foundation.
“The president’s commitment to scrap junk fees is a huge step forward for a more enjoyable, more equitable live experience,” says Dice CEO Phil Hutcheon. “Dice has always done upfront pricing and it leads to more fans going out more often, and ensures everyone can access the artists they love. It’s great for fans, artists and live venues.”
However, the National Independent Venue Association (NIVA), which represents more than 2,000 independent concert venues, stresses the need for further reform in the sector.
“Upfront pricing should be the start of comprehensive ticketing reform that protects consumers from price gouging and deceptive practices by predatory resellers,” says executive director Stephen Parker. “Other needed reforms such as banning speculative tickets and deceptive websites would further protect consumers in the ticketing marketplace. We applaud the president for [yesterday’s] meeting and look forward to working with his administration and Congress to make comprehensive, bipartisan ticketing reform a reality.”
“Until Congress acts to eliminate excessive fees and secondary ticketing is carefully regulated, millions of consumers will still be the victim of predatory ticketing practices”
The National Independent Talent Organization (NITO), the trade group for hundreds of independent booking agents and managers in the US, shares similar thoughts, deeming the move an “important first step” on ticket fee transparency.
“NITO calls on all ticket sellers to clearly show fans the total price of a ticket up front but also provide an itemised breakdown so fans understand the ticket price set by the artist and the fees added by ticket sellers. Until Congress acts to eliminate excessive fees and secondary ticketing is carefully regulated, millions of consumers will still be the victim of predatory ticketing practices.”
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