The Architects: Celebrating ITB’s Barry Dickins

To celebrate the work of some of the international live music industry’s pioneers, IQ Magazine has launched a new series, The Architects, in which we celebrate the key players who laid the foundations for today’s vibrant global business.

In our opening interview, which appears in full in the latest issue of IQ, ITB co-founder Barry Dickins shares his memories of how the industry was constructed – and some of the key names who helped establish the international touring circuit. Here are some of the highlights…

His origins in the business…
“My dad used to organise dances in Bishop’s Stortford, and I used to help him. That’s where I got the bug. I went to the Ilford Baths, where we’d put a false wooden floor over the pool, which was a bit of a recipe for disaster, but despite the odd scare or two, we actually never had a problem. I made more money in one night than I could make in a month at the Stock Exchange, so that’s how I got started.”

Going international…
“I was still a teenager, but I represented The Who, and I remember booking them into Scandinavia with a guy called Arne Worsøe, whose company was Bendix Music. There were some people taking bands to France and Germany, but my first deal was in Scandinavia. I think I’d read about Bendix somewhere, so I managed to find a number for Arne and called him up. At that time, there were two known promoters for Scandinavia: Bendix and SBA – Schneid Booking Agency, which was run from Sweden by a guy called Knud Thorbjensen who was getting stuff directly from America. So I got in touch with the Americans he was dealing with and persuaded them to come to England instead.”

“If I worked with people I thought were really good, I’d basically offer them everything”

The 90-10 split…
“I did a lot of business with David Geffen and Elliot Roberts, who managed a whole load of big American acts. So, we were agents, and we’d sell the act for a tour to the likes of John and Tony Smith for a guarantee, and we’d take our commission from that – and in those days, it was a 50-50 split. But then David and Elliot came to London for a meeting at Harold Davison and told us, ‘That’s not the deal anymore.’ They said, ‘We’re not working for you. We are supplying the talent, and the new deal is a 90-10 split: you get 10%, and we get 90%. No guarantee.’ The bottom line was that they were refusing to pay us a commission for booking the acts in England. I‘ve no idea if this had become a standard practice in the USA or if they just made it up.”

Relationships with promoters…
“If I worked with people I thought were really good, I’d basically offer them everything. The benefit of that would be that if you had a bunch of great acts, you could occasionally slip one in that wasn’t quite so good, and the promoter would do you a favour. He was great for my career, but Elliot Roberts was the worst when it came to out-of-office calls. He phoned me once from Tokyo at two o’clock in the morning, then three o’clock in the morning, then four o’clock. On the final call, my wife took the phone away from me and shouted at him: ‘Elliot, it’s four o’clock in the morning! Go fuck yourself!’ I was distraught. Elliot managed about eight of my acts – he was the original manager of the Eagles. But funnily enough, Elliot never called me in the middle of the night again.”

Starting up ITB in 1978…
“ITB was originally an equal three-way split between me, Rod [MacSween], and Don [Arden, artist manager] but our association with Don killed us on some acts while other acts couldn’t care less. Herbie Herbert, who managed Journey, just wouldn’t deal with us anymore, but it was bit unfair because Don only funded the company – he wasn’t involved in the day-to-day business at all. In fact, we never had an issue with Don, ever. And in the end, we bought out his share of the company in 1984 or ‘85, which took every penny of our money and sent us back to square one. But was probably the best deal we’ve ever done.”

“The way Live Nation has changed the industry – and is still changing it – is phenomenal”

Partnership with Rod MacSween…
“We’ve worked really well together over the years. When we started out, I was the one that brought most things in, and we had some very, very good years thanks to acts like Fleetwood Mac, Diana Ross, Yes… the list goes on. But that’s come full circle, and it’s now Rod that brings in most of the business. However, I’m enjoying a bit of a resurgence at the moment, because I’ve got Bob Dylan on the road, I’ve got Paul Simon coming up, as well as Neil Young and Billy Idol.”

Live Nation’s impact on the industry…
“[Michael] Rapino is a very, very intelligent man, and I’ve got a lot of respect for him,” says Dickins. “The way Live Nation has changed the industry – and is still changing it – is phenomenal. There’s no doubt that it’s been the driving force in making the business a lot more professional and serious.”

The new generation…
“It’s nice to have youngsters around you because of the way they do things. And it’s important to have different ears for new music. The youngsters in the office have always listened to music that I would never listen to unless they were playing it. They help keep us older folk young – well, young at heart, at least. It’s a lucky profession where not only can you surround yourself by youth but the nature of the business demands it, so that you can stay relevant. The health of the music industry depends upon youth, and it’s fascinating to see the creativity they bring to it and the ways in which artists present their tours, that we could never have dreamt were possible when we started out.”

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